Comments on: Disambiguating the brand http://blog.symbian.org/2009/07/07/disambiguating-the-brand/ Tue, 09 Mar 2010 16:35:34 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: surge http://blog.symbian.org/2009/07/07/disambiguating-the-brand/#comment-3480 surge Wed, 02 Sep 2009 17:21:08 +0000 http://blog.symbian.org/?p=1418#comment-3480 [quote]Any rule that platform APIs must always be preserved, between different platform releases, would place too large a programming burden on the system developers.[/quote] How does windows mobile accomplish compatibility like this then? You can pretty much (99% of the time) run software made for previous versions of windows mobile phones (lets say the HTC apache, ppc 6700 for example from 2005, natively comes with WM5) on WM phones (lets say the samsung i8000) that were released recently, with a completely different version? They're organized, that's how :) [quote]Any rule that platform APIs must always be preserved, between different platform releases, would place too large a programming burden on the system developers.[/quote]

How does windows mobile accomplish compatibility like this then?

You can pretty much (99% of the time) run software made for previous versions of windows mobile phones (lets say the HTC apache, ppc 6700 for example from 2005, natively comes with WM5) on WM phones (lets say the samsung i8000) that were released recently, with a completely different version?

They’re organized, that’s how :)

]]> By: surge http://blog.symbian.org/2009/07/07/disambiguating-the-brand/#comment-3475 surge Wed, 02 Sep 2009 16:10:25 +0000 http://blog.symbian.org/?p=1418#comment-3475 [quote]The first compatible Symbian devices are Nokia 97, Nokia 5800, Nokia 5530, Samsung i8910HD and the Sony Ericsson Satio[/quote] This is very misleading. You are making it sound like these devices will be updated in the future to newer builds when they will not. Read Petra's post for clarification. Tose devices mentioned will NOT be updated to newer versions of Symbian. We are screwed basically. Buy a new device, give them more of your money :). [quote]HTC gives their phones updates just like Apple does.[/quote] Are you seriously comparing HTC and Apple to Symbian? They all have to do with phones -- the comparison stops there. HTC and Apple are organized. They have concrete versioning systems that don't get changed (S60v5 to Symbian^1? Can you be any MORE confusing? Keep things one way and make it stay that way, for god's sake!) Also -- most likely, software on one HTC WM phone, will work on any HTC WM phone.. Just like software made for a Windows mobile HTC phone will work on a Samsung windows mobile phone, or a LG windows mobile phone. There's compatibility all across the board. In fact, you can even install the newest builds of windows mobile 6.5 on HTC\LG devices that were released with windows mobile 5.0 (3-4 years ago). You want to do that with Symbian? You want upgrades and cross compatibility? Haha! Software for Nokia symbians60v5 doesn't even run on Samsung \ SE phones with the same exact operating system. There's proprietary APIs and broken code all over the place. We will get no updates. There's no organization, that's how they choose to do things. Lesson Learned: Don't buy any more Symbian phones until (if?) they get their act together. Consumers want devices to last them longer than 6 months. We want upgrades and cross compatibility between different manufacturers. What would people do if they had a Dell laptop running XP and an Acer laptop running the same OS, yet some software only worked on the Dell one? That's competely rediculous -- but that's how it is with Symbian. It's 2009, not 1992. Get your act together (sorry for being harsh but -- someone has to say it). [quote]The first compatible Symbian devices are Nokia 97, Nokia 5800, Nokia 5530, Samsung i8910HD and the Sony Ericsson Satio[/quote]

This is very misleading. You are making it sound like these devices will be updated in the future to newer builds when they will not. Read Petra’s post for clarification. Tose devices mentioned will NOT be updated to newer versions of Symbian. We are screwed basically. Buy a new device, give them more of your money :) .

[quote]HTC gives their phones updates just like Apple does.[/quote]

Are you seriously comparing HTC and Apple to Symbian? They all have to do with phones — the comparison stops there. HTC and Apple are organized. They have concrete versioning systems that don’t get changed (S60v5 to Symbian^1? Can you be any MORE confusing? Keep things one way and make it stay that way, for god’s sake!)

Also — most likely, software on one HTC WM phone, will work on any HTC WM phone..
Just like software made for a Windows mobile HTC phone will work on a Samsung windows mobile phone, or a LG windows mobile phone. There’s compatibility all across the board. In fact, you can even install the newest builds of windows mobile 6.5 on HTC\LG devices that were released with windows mobile 5.0 (3-4 years ago).

You want to do that with Symbian? You want upgrades and cross compatibility? Haha! Software for Nokia symbians60v5 doesn’t even run on Samsung \ SE phones with the same exact operating system. There’s proprietary APIs and broken code all over the place. We will get no updates. There’s no organization, that’s how they choose to do things.

Lesson Learned: Don’t buy any more Symbian phones until (if?) they get their act together. Consumers want devices to last them longer than 6 months. We want upgrades and cross compatibility between different manufacturers.

What would people do if they had a Dell laptop running XP and an Acer laptop running the same OS, yet some software only worked on the Dell one? That’s competely rediculous — but that’s how it is with Symbian. It’s 2009, not 1992. Get your act together (sorry for being harsh but — someone has to say it).

]]> By: Symbian S60 5th Edition the latest? - Page 3 - Samsung i8910 Omnia HD User Forums http://blog.symbian.org/2009/07/07/disambiguating-the-brand/#comment-3472 Symbian S60 5th Edition the latest? - Page 3 - Samsung i8910 Omnia HD User Forums Wed, 02 Sep 2009 15:21:43 +0000 http://blog.symbian.org/?p=1418#comment-3472 [...] [...] [...] [...]

]]> By: David Wood http://blog.symbian.org/2009/07/07/disambiguating-the-brand/#comment-2606 David Wood Fri, 31 Jul 2009 13:57:43 +0000 http://blog.symbian.org/?p=1418#comment-2606 Hi David, <blockquote>The first says new symbian cannot be downloaded on an platform with previous version, but the original article states ‘platforms with previous versions’ as being compatible.</blockquote> It's a good question. The answer is that there are two kinds of API (Application Programming Interface). *) <b>public</b> APIs are preserved between different releases of the platform. So an application that uses only the public APIs and runs on an S^1 device should also be able to run on an S^2 device. *) <b>platform</b> APIs are in some cases <i>not</i> preserved between different releases of the platform. Components that are designed to be built into the software that ships in a devices, in general use platform APIs as well as public APIs. Any rule that platform APIs must always be preserved, between different platform releases, would place too large a programming burden on the system developers. Articles on the developer website explain this in more detail. <a href="http://developer.symbian.org/wiki/index.php/Symbian_Collaboration_Processes/Creating_Applications_on_the_Symbian_Platform" rel="nofollow">This article</a> is a good starting point. <blockquote>Can someone please clarify for me, will the above phones (I have a 5800XM) be updateable to Symbian^2 or not…?</blockquote> This is really a decision for the manufacturers, not for Symbian. // David W. Hi David,

The first says new symbian cannot be downloaded on an platform with previous version, but the original article states ‘platforms with previous versions’ as being compatible.

It’s a good question. The answer is that there are two kinds of API (Application Programming Interface).

*) public APIs are preserved between different releases of the platform. So an application that uses only the public APIs and runs on an S^1 device should also be able to run on an S^2 device.

*) platform APIs are in some cases not preserved between different releases of the platform. Components that are designed to be built into the software that ships in a devices, in general use platform APIs as well as public APIs.

Any rule that platform APIs must always be preserved, between different platform releases, would place too large a programming burden on the system developers.

Articles on the developer website explain this in more detail. This article is a good starting point.

Can someone please clarify for me, will the above phones (I have a 5800XM) be updateable to Symbian^2 or not…?

This is really a decision for the manufacturers, not for Symbian.

// David W.

]]> By: david (aftertaf) http://blog.symbian.org/2009/07/07/disambiguating-the-brand/#comment-2605 david (aftertaf) Fri, 31 Jul 2009 11:42:37 +0000 http://blog.symbian.org/?p=1418#comment-2605 [quote] As for getting updates of new Symbian platform releases to your existing Nokia devices, unfortunately this will not work. Entire platforms cannot be downloaded on a device that has been built using a previous platform version. [/quote] [quote] Other facts: * Symbian OS trademarks are owned by Nokia, you won’t see Nokia referring to the brand except in previous device specs * The first compatible Symbian devices are Nokia 97, Nokia 5800, Nokia 5530, Samsung i8910HD and the Sony Ericsson Satio [/quote] disambiguating the ambiguation in these quotes . . . . The first says new symbian cannot be downloaded on an platform with previous version, but the original article states 'platforms with previous versions' as being compatible. Can someone please clarify for me, will the above phones (I have a 5800XM) be updateable to Symbian^2 or not...? [quote]
As for getting updates of new Symbian platform releases to your existing Nokia devices, unfortunately this will not work. Entire platforms cannot be downloaded on a device that has been built using a previous platform version.
[/quote]

[quote]
Other facts:

* Symbian OS trademarks are owned by Nokia, you won’t see Nokia referring to the brand except in previous device specs

* The first compatible Symbian devices are Nokia 97, Nokia 5800, Nokia 5530, Samsung i8910HD and the Sony Ericsson Satio
[/quote]

disambiguating the ambiguation in these quotes . . . .

The first says new symbian cannot be downloaded on an platform with previous version,
but the original article states ‘platforms with previous versions’ as being compatible.

Can someone please clarify for me, will the above phones (I have a 5800XM) be updateable to Symbian^2 or not…?

]]> By: trizic http://blog.symbian.org/2009/07/07/disambiguating-the-brand/#comment-2588 trizic Tue, 28 Jul 2009 07:40:04 +0000 http://blog.symbian.org/?p=1418#comment-2588 HTC gives their phones updates just like Apple does. Why couldn't Nokia or Symbian do the same? meh, I have no idea why I keep buying Nokias knowing I'd have to buy another to get new features of an improved OS. Nokia did it right with N800 and N810 with the Maemo OS. N800 got the same diablo OS, why couldn't let say N97 receive the Symbian^2 OS. It would drive more sales to Nokia. HTC gives their phones updates just like Apple does. Why couldn’t Nokia or Symbian do the same? meh, I have no idea why I keep buying Nokias knowing I’d have to buy another to get new features of an improved OS. Nokia did it right with N800 and N810 with the Maemo OS. N800 got the same diablo OS, why couldn’t let say N97 receive the Symbian^2 OS. It would drive more sales to Nokia.

]]> By: EVVJSK http://blog.symbian.org/2009/07/07/disambiguating-the-brand/#comment-2524 EVVJSK Tue, 21 Jul 2009 15:17:03 +0000 http://blog.symbian.org/?p=1418#comment-2524 I think Nokia (Symbian if you like) had better get a move on positioning themselves in the marketplace. I can't remember the last time I saw a Nokia TV Ad (but I see iPhone and Blackberry apps daily)Recent InfoWorld article showed 2nd quarter profits down 66%. Most people in the U.S. haven't even heard of Nokia lately (let alone Symbian, forget about the caret, it will do nothing but complicate things if people don't know what it means). I have been a Nokia owner for about 12 years (4 phones), but with the Buzz of Blackberry, Pre, iPhone 3GS, etc... the Nokia/Symbian brand is poised to be lost in the background for those who aren't techies and understand the Nokia/Symbian benefits. One suggestion would be to get Phone manufacturers, Symbian, and AT&T/T-mobile to start a "Symbian Inside" campain much like the "Intel Inside" campain that got people thinking about why they would want an Intel Processor over an AMD. Maybe even tie it in with a movie placement showing the Symbian phone doing GPS, multi-tasking, being dropped and still working, etc... to show the public what it can do and why they would want it over other brands. I know the U.S. isn't the World, but the U.S. drives a lot of what the world "wants" and I would hate to see Nokia/Symbian et al fade due to lack of exposure. I think Nokia (Symbian if you like) had better get a move on positioning themselves in the marketplace. I can’t remember the last time I saw a Nokia TV Ad (but I see iPhone and Blackberry apps daily)Recent InfoWorld article showed 2nd quarter profits down 66%. Most people in the U.S. haven’t even heard of Nokia lately (let alone Symbian, forget about the caret, it will do nothing but complicate things if people don’t know what it means). I have been a Nokia owner for about 12 years (4 phones), but with the Buzz of Blackberry, Pre, iPhone 3GS, etc… the Nokia/Symbian brand is poised to be lost in the background for those who aren’t techies and understand the Nokia/Symbian benefits. One suggestion would be to get Phone manufacturers, Symbian, and AT&T/T-mobile to start a “Symbian Inside” campain much like the “Intel Inside” campain that got people thinking about why they would want an Intel Processor over an AMD. Maybe even tie it in with a movie placement showing the Symbian phone doing GPS, multi-tasking, being dropped and still working, etc… to show the public what it can do and why they would want it over other brands. I know the U.S. isn’t the World, but the U.S. drives a lot of what the world “wants” and I would hate to see Nokia/Symbian et al fade due to lack of exposure.

]]> By: nile http://blog.symbian.org/2009/07/07/disambiguating-the-brand/#comment-2397 nile Mon, 13 Jul 2009 15:38:45 +0000 http://blog.symbian.org/?p=1418#comment-2397 This is all exciting but I guess what frightens some is that "will my S60 3rd still get any future software from developers and Nokia itself?" Since everyone seems to be moving on. I don't know the technical aspects of all of this but am just asking as a common consumer. I hate to get a N86 now and have no new apps to add to it next year. This is all exciting but I guess what frightens some is that “will my S60 3rd still get any future software from developers and Nokia itself?” Since everyone seems to be moving on. I don’t know the technical aspects of all of this but am just asking as a common consumer. I hate to get a N86 now and have no new apps to add to it next year.

]]> By: David Wood http://blog.symbian.org/2009/07/07/disambiguating-the-brand/#comment-2375 David Wood Sun, 12 Jul 2009 09:55:23 +0000 http://blog.symbian.org/?p=1418#comment-2375 Hi Petra, <blockquote>I don’t see any posts clarifying the compatibility question of the devices that Anatolie mentions, so I’ll give it a try...</blockquote> Many thanks for your detailed and helpful answer! <blockquote>Why is there moderation now on the Symbian blog? this means no discussion during non-office hours?</blockquote> I don't think we've changed the moderation settings (though it's possible that Wordpress have tweaked them behind the scenes). By default, the first comment that someone makes is held for moderator review. After their first posting has been approved, their comments are normally assumed to be non-spam and on topic, and bypass moderation. However, there are a few exceptions to this rule. One exception is for posts that contain two or more hyperlinks - the rationale being that spam posts often contain a lot of links. That must be why your comment on compatibility was, exceptionally, automatically flagged for moderator attention. Sorry! // David W. Hi Petra,

I don’t see any posts clarifying the compatibility question of the devices that Anatolie mentions, so I’ll give it a try…

Many thanks for your detailed and helpful answer!

Why is there moderation now on the Symbian blog? this means no discussion during non-office hours?

I don’t think we’ve changed the moderation settings (though it’s possible that WordPress have tweaked them behind the scenes). By default, the first comment that someone makes is held for moderator review. After their first posting has been approved, their comments are normally assumed to be non-spam and on topic, and bypass moderation.

However, there are a few exceptions to this rule. One exception is for posts that contain two or more hyperlinks – the rationale being that spam posts often contain a lot of links. That must be why your comment on compatibility was, exceptionally, automatically flagged for moderator attention. Sorry!

// David W.

]]> By: Petra S http://blog.symbian.org/2009/07/07/disambiguating-the-brand/#comment-2374 Petra S Sun, 12 Jul 2009 08:17:01 +0000 http://blog.symbian.org/?p=1418#comment-2374 Why is there moderation now on the Symbian blog? this means no discussion during non-office hours? Why is there moderation now on the Symbian blog? this means no discussion during non-office hours?

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